Poodle / Mix / Doodle / Fuzzy Critter - RESCUE / REHOME
Helping Loki and Elizabeth find how to be Happy...
- Elizabeth asked:
- Why are you here? How can we help you?
- I'm feeling unsure about Loki. He came with unexpected issues, and he is behaving like a puppy mill dog. We really need a dog that can travel with us and be around lots of people. I need advice. I feel terrible, because I'm not sure we have the time to work with him right now. We weren't expecting an undersocialized dog.
Posts
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
At 11:11pm on August 31, 2010, Elizabeth said…
Wow I am so glad I stumbled across a place where I can get actual advice so quickly.
The scoop on Loki. He came directly from a breeder, but was from a previous litter. We didn't go in looking for a rescue--just a companion. We wanted an older dog, but were unaware of the time period when dogs are puppies that they need to be socialized. The breeder did not make us aware of this. He is 8 mos. He had a brother in the kennel whom he has now been separated from.
I don't think he ever left the farm where he was raised and spent most of his time in a kennel. He is terrified of people but not other dogs. He is fine with me, my fiance, and two of my fiances coworkers who regularly come over to the house. I have also had some friends and their dogs over for "doggie dates" He loves that.
He prefers me the most of all people, since I spend the most time with him. We go for walks 4 times a day and he does great, but as soon as we start heading back to the house, he pulls on the leash and freezes up. I have to give sharp tugs to get him back inside. He is scared of pretty much everything--cars, people, noises. When we come back in from walks, he dashes upstairs (where we all sleep together) and won't come down, even to eat and drink. We have begun closing off the upstairs. He will eat and drink downstairs, but when he dashes upstairs it is almost like he "forgets" about his needs.
He is great about going potty outside and great with our cats, but I am afraid to even run the vacum around him (literally--our carpet looks terrible right now). We also lead an active, travelling lifestyle and want to be able to take him with us. My fiance is leaving for a month and 1/2 in a few weeks and I have to go back to teaching. My friend is moving in to help with him while my fiance is gone, but since he is so timid I'm scared he won't even go out with her. I have signed him up for group dog training lessons starting in a couple of weeks, but I don't even know how to get him in the car.
At 12:05am on September 1, 2010, Lynne Fowler - RRC Admin said…
Wow, what a mouthful. LOL First, if he has only been with you for a week, give him time and don't tiptoe around him. Do you have a crate or quiet corner? Make him a special place, with blankets, cushions, etc. that he can go to hide, yet still see. Keep the stairs blocked off and show him to his safe place when he gets scared. Then run the vacuum have friends over and keep your routines, normal. He will be scared and each time he is scared and nothing bad happens he will learn it's OK. If you keep shielding him from "normal" activity, he will never learn it is OK. Remember that it takes a couple weeks to a month for these dogs to realize they are really home and safe. If you relax, he will learn to relax, too.
You can't change whatever he lived through in the past, but you can change his future. You can also start a discussion in the forum on the main page and others will pipe in with advice, too. But from experience with puppy mill dogs, they take time to relax and not be so afraid, but once they do and they feel safe, they become the most wonderful, loving dogs on the planet. They know where they have been and where they are now. Give him the time to learn everything is alright. Sending strength, Lynne
At 10:59am on September 1, 2010, Elizabeth said…
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, Lynn. So in regard to the freezing on his leash thing when we walk back to the house....am I right to tug on him like that? I always say..."good boy!" after each tug and "come!" while I'm tugging. I try to re-enforce with treats but he often won't take them.
Also, everything I read tells me that he can't be socialized because he missed the window as a puppy. Is this true?
At 11:23am on September 1, 2010, Lynne Fowler - RRC Admin said…
First of all, that is NOT true that he cannot be socialized but he may never be 100% socialized like he would have been if you had gotten him as a pup and it may take longer. I was told my girl, Ginger came from a mill/horder situation and when she first came to me, she didn't know what grass was, nor where to do her business or how to walk on a leash. She was afraid of every noise, person or anyone touching her. Over the course of a month, I carried her in and out my door as she was afraid of doors. At first, I couldn't touch her and I would index finger touch and back away and after awhile she stopped freezing up, she learned everything she was supposed to and now is a sweet, lovable girl. But she is still fearful of strangers and probably always will be. She will go to her safe place under my desk when someone is in the house she doesn't know. But she doesn't shake anymore or run and hide, she will watch them, though, the whole time they are here.
I don't know how much he weighs, but if not moving on the leash, it's OK to keep reassuring him with tugs and treats or just pick him up and keep telling him it's OK. Try not to hurt him with your tugs or he will equate walking with pain and a bad thing. Whatever trauma he endured took time and getting past it will take time.
If you can, try to walk him around the perimeter of your property or yard. If you have a fenced yard, this is easier and then gradually increase his world. But not for business, just to walk and learn it and that this place is OK. See if you can find one place for his business to go that he can go to and smell his own smells. If he was caged, he is used to a very small world, start with the small area then go large. A walk around your neighborhood might be too "big" for him right now. Especially for only having him one week. Give him that month and you will start to see the differences. But if you want him to learn your sounds and routines, don't shield him from them, teach him they are OK.
At 11:49am on September 1, 2010, Elizabeth said…
He is actually great on the leash usually...it is just the walk back to the house that scares him. We have only been walking him around the farm...so far we haven't ventured out onto the road yet. His training classes are supposed to start on the 15th of September. Any tips for getting him in the car? Also, he is not neutered, but so gentle. Is it necessary to neuter him? Sorry so many questions!
At 12:17pm on September 1, 2010, Lynne Fowler - RRC Admin said…
Boy, you ask some tough questions. How old is he? Eight months is an OK age to neuter him but you may want to wait a few weeks or month until he feels more secure. Has he been to the vet at all yet? You may want to start walking around the car a few times a day, then just sitting in it but not starting it a couple times. If that works, try a few times starting it and driving up and down the driveway a few times, etc. Just the repetition and him seeing that he is OK, he will get better. Do the same with the vacuum or any other thing he is afraid of. Go slow! A few experiences with the new things will help him understand it's OK.
My thought is Sept 15th might be too soon to take him for training. Any chance the trainer can come to your home and work with him and you? Once he has some loving training, (make sure it is a positive reinforcement approach and not an Alpha/Dominance approach or you will make the situation worse) and is feeling comfortable with you, your family and the trainer, then take a class. I think you may be rushing him to feel comfortable and learn his p's and q's. You need to go really slowly with abused/mill/unsocialized dogs. I mean months...not days or weeks.
How is he when left alone? Where are you leaving him when you leave and how does he behave? I am a teacher, too and know what you are facing. Try a few trial runs of leaving him alone, now. Leave a radio or TV on, there's lot's of keep busy treats you can give him.
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
At 12:35pm on September 1, 2010, Elizabeth said…
I thought it might be too soon. I actually asked the trainer if she would do a private class with him but she seems to think he would benefit more from the group class. He is fine when left alone. We had to leave for five hours the other day. We walked him right beforehand and left the radio on. He was just in his bed when we returned. Everything was fine.
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Permalink Reply by 0h3mojw1v225u on
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Hi Everyone. I hope you can help. I feel overwhelmed, tired, and stressed, and I know this is all just rubbing off on poor Loki.
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
Eliz, If he is fine alone, I would not take him to training class and let him come around on his own and in his own time. I would work slowly and build his confidence slowly. It doesn't sound like he is being destructive or a problem other than fearful.
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
The very best thing you can do is relax and do your normal routines and he will learn to adapt. He will definitely pick up on your mood and mirror it. It will probably help him a lot if you relax first, then in between vacuuming or dishes or visitors, take a few minutes of quiet with him and tell him he did great. Over and over, will help him relax.
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Permalink Reply by Sue & the Crew on
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Elizabeth, I don't have first hand experience with this sort of situation like Lynne does, but I do read a LOT! Most of the information I have come across suggests exactly what Lynne is telling you: to carry on with your normal routine and let Loki observe you. Make him that special "safe" spot he can go to whenever he is frightened. Let him learn that nothing bad happens after those "frightening" experiences. He needs to develop some "confidence", trust, and feeling of security. I agree to slowly expand his world. Trying to introduce too many new experiences too quickly would probably overload him and make him more insecure. It seems that, depending on his past, it could take weeks or months for him to come out of his shell, but when he does you will see it was worth the work and wait.
I read a story some time ago about a family that adopted an older puppy from a "breeder" only to find out the puppy was kept outside all the time, no human contact, etc. You may find it interesting what this family experienced, the story can be found at:
http://www.goldendoodles.com/inUS5/cody.htm
Don't give up. Loki needs you to be strong. Keep us posted.
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Thank you for sharing that! Cody actually seems a little worse off then Loki, and it seems like he has come around. That was a comforting and touching story. I am really appreciative of all the support here.
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
That is one of the purposes of this site, Eliz. It can be hard to rescue a dog, especially since we don't know the past and the baggage they come with. But after they are secure, it is so worth it. I promise you, it will get better. Love, patience and time is what the two of you need. We are here, anytime.
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
Eliz, how did things go today? Did everyone relax a bit? I was just thinking about you and hope things are going well.
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Things are still a bit strained, but I am relaxing. A friend gave me some good advice today: "Just don't expect anything from him, let him be himself and go on with your life" I don't know why, but the way she phrased that really clicked with me, now I just think about that mantra.
Loki is barking at things now, when he is surprised. Is this a good thing?...like he is becoming more comfortable? It's the first real barking he's done. He barked at our friend when he walked into the kitchen yesterday, at my fiance when he emerged from the closet this morning, and at the sound of the cats scratching in their litter box just now. He doesn't lunge or anything, just barks.
Instead of pulling him into the house I am now carrying him when he freezes (every time, pretty much) but he doesn't mind being carried. I just don't want him to become TOO used to it...in the future I'd like him to walk into the house.
Thanks for checking up on us, again I really appreciate all of your support!
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AdminPermalink Reply by LM Fowler - Admin on -
It sounds like you are on your way. Just let him come to the realizations that things are OK on his own terms and in his own time and you relaxing is probably the best thing you can do for him. He will pick up cues from you are if you are OK with things, he will be too.
As far as the pulling, maybe try to coax him closer everyday with treats and praise and before too long you will be in the house. Give him a special treat in the house so he equates coming home with something good. He will get it. You'll see. Let us know how it's going.
We can't know this, but you may even be helping someone else by this discussion, who may be going through a similar situation.
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Member Since 2009Permalink Reply by Dr. Judith P. LaVorgna on -
Hey gf...you are doing well so far...take if from a really old methusala rescuer!! It will take Loki TIME...Time to know you and your people (who will be his); voices, smells, sounds, play, safe zones...Two full weeks and you will begin to see who Loki is. During that time you must be his safety net. Protect him, show him how the house and the out of doors "works". Likewise, you are his ombudsperson and his leader. When he needs a "No" you say it, never use your hands on him in anger (don't think you would but just a reminder for any new folks reading this). Time for Loki to relax and feel his way. His journey is like yours if you were dropped in some remote village of Central America or China. Learning about everything. Everything.
It sounds like Loki didn't get all that human canine bonding when he was born and raised, but you can still show him that now. Massage is good, petting is good...quiet and gentle voice is good. Loki following you is fine. He's got the socialization with other dogs which is great...now to transfer that to what he is not familiar with..human beings. So, given that you love Loki, you are his new
Mom and you are raising him up from the point at which you found and adopted him.
Every day he is with you in this transition is another day toward calming him...sometimes dogs shut down a bit when they are transferred to a new place. And it sounds like he also separated from a bonded sibling. That is difficullt also, but he will be fine on his own as long as you and your fiance' make him feel as comfortable as he can be. Safe is the operant word. Trust the next.
I'm not so sure I would carry him into the house...I'd buy the real liver training bits..tiny pieces of real liver and use that and give lots of praise. If you don't get him over that "freeze" mode you could be carrying 70 lbs of love the rest of your life. Maybe having someone like your fiance at the door when you come back and calling him in would surprise him enough to walk right on in to a liver treat! Give that a try. Remember..he may not have been allowed into the house of where he previously lived. He will need to learn that the rules have changed now. And he will have to have a comfort level with that. Time and the same routines and behaviors. A new dog can get overwhelmed with too much new at one time. Gently lead him into the new life you have given him. You will have spectacular rewards I promise you. Time and a belief you can do it! You will.
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